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Simmonds and Neal Aren’t The Answers


Posted by Jeff Veillette on 21 Jul 2010 / 8 Comments
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As the offseason drags on, and, as we went through yesterday, Kovalchuk (sorta) and Gagne appear to be off the market, Leafs Nation is pointing itself in new directions, desperately speculating for that ever-so-wanted to six forward. Now, we’ve seen all kinds of names being thrown out over the past little while, from all sorts of teams. In fact, I wrote an article on this regard, about players that we should stop talking about.

Thankfully, other than Bobby Ryan, most of the talk about the players on that list has disappeared. But, of course, two new challengers have hit the scene in a way that has somehow become even more annoying than the first bunch (minus, of course, Mr. Ryan, who’s speculation has gotten so ridiculous that even he himself is annoyed by it). These two challengers, of course, are Wayne Simmonds of the Los Angeles Kings, and James Neal of the Dallas Stars. Pretty much all speculation with them has Tomas Kaberle involved,which is about as shocking as if I said that LeafsHQ wasn’t a blog about the New York Knicks.

There’s a few issues with it, though.

1. Neither Player Is On The Market

This is by far the most evident point. Neal is frequently assumed to be the first to depart due to the fact that he doesn’t have a contract just yet, making him a restricted free agent. Such a theory is fine, for the most part, if it wasn’t for the fact that the fact that he’s an RFA still means absolutely nothing regarding his future with the Dallas Stars. As we’ve seen offer sheets are few and far between, and not many players are traded as RFA’s. Sure, we had the Kessel deal of last year, but at the same time, Boston was being pushed against the cap. Dallas, on the other hand, has plenty of space.

Keeping on that same train of thought, much bigger names are still needing contracts, such as Erik Johnson and Carey Price. Of course, the Leafs have no interest in either of them, so you probably wont see anyone claiming that they want out of their teams. Neal and Ryan on the other hand, are examples of RFA’s that suit the Leafs needs, so speculation flies rampant.

With Neal’s supposed contract issues aside, there’s another thing that people so conveniently forget – that guys you think would be absolutely perfect for your team generally are pretty good and prefered to be kept on their own teams. Simmonds and Neal are both considered integral parts of their respective teams, that Dean Lombardi and Joe Nieuwendyk want to keep as part of their core for years to come. On top of this, both teams could probably use a few young wingers for when their older ones start to tail off, which is happening, oh, I don’t know, right now for Dallas, and soon enough for LA. The only reason they possibly wouldn’t want to keep them, is if they actually wanted out, which theres no indication of at all, from anyone, at any point.

And if there was, having a thought process of “Hey, this guy hates his current team! We should grab him and hope it doesn’t happen here!” is an absolutely asinine one to have.

Any deal for either player would have to be in the form of a massive overpayment to convince Lombardi or Nieuwendyk to take a chance on letting them go.

2. The Main Issue – Why Are We So Obsessed With Them?

This is what I’ve wanted to get to the root of for a while. It seemed to me that the players people would point out are ever so similar to each other on a position by position basis, but I couldn’t really figure out why. In this case, I’ve noticed something about the young, lower-mid price range wingers like Neal and Simmonds.

For one, they’re both local boys. Neal is from Oshawa, and Simmonds is from Scarborough. Though people will swear to you this has absolutely nothing to do with their thought process on these players, you’ll start to see this isn’t the case with lines like “seems like the kind of player that would want to play for Toronto”, “He just screams Leaf in the way he plays” and other buzz talk like that.

The reality is, if you actually look at these players from a local perspective, its time to stop doing so. The myth that a player will play any different in his hometown is absolute crap. Even if that player was a fan of the Leafs growing up, unless you happened to draft them, that went away the second their name was called by another team. Could Wayne Simmonds and James Neal have been watching the Leafs as kids? Sure. In fact, that’s probably the case. Do you think either of them care about the teams existance any more? If you really do think so, you need to get your head out of the sand.

Another thing I see in them is that most of these players are typically RFA’s or nearing the end of their entry level contracts. The reasoning for this is because it implants a subconscious thought of the players being bargains, and grossly overplaying their salaries. While this may be true for the time eing, one must remember that eventually that contract will expire, and they’ll have to be signed again, which will probably lead to the player losing his charm in one’s eyes. Look at Nikolai Kulemin. In April, you would think that this kid was going to win the Art Ross, the Selke, and the Vezina in the same year by how people were hyping him up. Then the contract rumours came out, and the floor got swept out from under the feet of Kulemin’s hype. The talk on him is still generally positive, but nowhere near what it was before negotiations hit a high gear.

Speaking of Kulemin, the hype he got, and what I’m sure people are seeing in their head swith Neal and Simmonds, is tied into something I’d like to call Former Leafs Syndrome.

What I’m getting at, is that people see very poor mans elements of players that they fondly remember in Leafs history, and apply them to players of today. Every somewhat decent 2nd/3rd liner who can hit and score 20 goals is Gary Roberts. Every sniper is Alexander Mogilny. Every smallish centre with a slight edge is Doug Gilmour, every who does at least 2/3 of hitting hard, fighting, and having a moustache is Wendel Clark, every smaller fighter who scores a goal every 15 game is Tie Domi, if you’re big and European, you could possibly be Mats Sundin. This goes on, and on, and on.

Look. I know that many of us have nostalgia moments over the Leafs rosters from 93-2004 (with some exceptions in the middle), but the fact is, its clearly evident that people’s wants for new players are centred around hoping they can recreate those moments with younger players that could MAYBE have that potential, but probably won’t. Simmonds and Neal are examples of the Roberts comparison, hell, even the pictured above Kulemin occasionally gets a mention by a desperate nostalgic (though they’ll be quick to add that Kulemin doesn’t have the “edge”, but he’s the best we got, damnit). The big problem with this though, is while the players who’s types we aspire to see on our team again were very effective players, we’re idolizing a time of no results. The types that we want to return amounted for at best 2 Eastern Conference final appearances, but that’s about it. We shouldn’t be looking at players to today and saying “Hey, James Neal can be X”, James Neal has to BE James Neal. Combine that way of looking at things, wit a more reasonabile look at contracts for the player sos often questioned, and the hype will surely start to fade.

3. However…

The one thing that I’m not saying with all of this considered though, is that Kaberle to either of these teams couldn’t possibly work. Its well known that Los Angeles wants to make a big move, and that they may very well be looking for exactly what Tomas Kaberle is, a top pairing puck moving D that doesn’t have a lot left on his contract. As for who the Leafs could get, I’m obviously going to rule out Simmonds (duh). Also, I don’t see Brayden Schenn or Dustin Brown as possibilities, as much as the masses wish they were (top prospect and captain? Highly unlikely). If Burke wants immediate help, look for a Los Angeles offer to have one of Jarret Stoll or Justin Williams, possibly Michal Handzus but not incredibly likely. Both Stoll and Williams have multiple years left on their deals, and a prospect would no doubt be added if the Leafs took Williams’ contract off of Los Angeles’ hands. Speaking of prospects, Tomas Hickey or Oscar Moller could be in the discussion as well.

Looking at Dallas is a different story. They’re not in as much of a major need of Kaberle, with Matt Niskanen being a solid puck moving defenceman for them, but the core as a whole could still use a boost, so its entirely possible. If I was a betting man, I would say that the most likely player offered up would be Mike Ribeiro. Dallas has 12.8 million invested into their top 2 centres, which is a lot for any team. Ribeiro can play on the 1st line rather effectively, but doesn’t do so as Brad Richards is an even better player (one that’s even less likely to be moved, too). Thoughts of Neal, Morrow, Eriksson, or Richards are pipe dreams.  Another potential throw in I could see is Fabien Brunnstrom, just to see if he actually is a dud or if Dallas wasn’t the right fit (worst case, Jonas Gustavsson has another Farjestads teammate to replace Rickard ‘The People’s Champion’ Wallin. As for prospects, don’t look into it much – Scott Glennie, Jamie Benn, and Jack Campbell top their prospect core, and will be there for a while to say the least.

To sum things up, the Simmonds and Neal talk is silly. Neither of them are going anywhere, and our hype for them (and others) is often local boy syndrome, hopes of restoring nostalgia with remotely similar players, or both. Dallas and LA are decent partners if we want to talk trade, but the people we’re asking for are a bit unreasonable to think of at the moment.

Written by Jeff Veillette

I run this site, along with MarliesHQ. Leafs fan as far back as I can remember. You can follow me on twitter at @Jeffler

  • raskofalltrades

    OK i get ur points but wat if BB deiced to make an offer Devon Lombradi cant refuse??

    wat im thinking is kaberlay hanson and gravobski for schenn simmons and brown

    kulemin-bozak-kessel
    simmons-schenn-brown
    brown-sjostrom-wallin
    versteeg-orr-armstrong

    beachman-schenn
    kaberlay-gunerson
    lebda-rynnas

    Jiggy
    Yonas “The monster” Gustavson

  • http://Website the guy above is retarded

    ^ lol

  • Andrew

    Ya the guy’s depth chart is missing key guys (Phaneuf) and has guys that are gone (Wallin) and generally has everyone in the wrong spot, and the trade is ridiculous. How about Kaberle for Simmonds, or throw in one of the other guys to get Schenn or all 3 guys for Brown.
    I do think that you Neal and Simmonds are attainable however; everybody seems to be undervaluing Kaberle more and more the longer this goes.

  • http://leafshq.com/ Jeff Veillette

    He’s kidding. Raskofalltrades makes fake comments all the time, he’s actually one of our writers and actually knows what he’s talking about.

    As for the rest, its like you didn’t read a single word of the article, so I wont even bother with a response


    Andrew:

    Ya the guy’s depth chart is missing key guys (Phaneuf) and has guys that are gone (Wallin) and generally has everyone in the wrong spot, and the trade is ridiculous. How about Kaberle for Simmonds, or throw in one of the other guys to get Schenn or all 3 guys for Brown.
    I do think that you Neal and Simmonds are attainable however; everybody seems to be undervaluing Kaberle more and more the longer this goes.

  • http://Website peteypuck

    Whoever gets the best player wins the trade. 35 goal power forwards, big fast and mean, they are almost impossible to find. I will gladly overpay for one. Why pay 100 mil salary for Kovolchuk when you can pay 5 years at 5 mil per for Bobby Ryan?

    Kaberle and Beauchemin and a mid pick and a couple of decent prospects, (say Caputi, Mikus) for Ryan and Lupol’s 4.25 mil contract that runs through 2013.

    It’s not like the guy will ever play again, he tweeted today about chillin in Cali, he bitched about being sick of MRI’s, and he saw a couple of doctors last week. If he does somehow play again up to his previous level (which he won’t) that’s cool too.

    He never plays he never hits the Leafs cap. It’s a straight save 17 mil deal for the Ducks. And, they need a lot more than 1 D man. Getting Beauchemin back would be a good move for them, need and optics wise.

    Before you flame this idea, remember this was the team that took Blake AND Toskala for a much smaller dump.
    Now, look at the Leafs D Man costs and tell me that Dion, Schenn, Gunnerson, Komi, and Lubda isn’t a pretty damn good top 5. Go sign a 10 minute guy who can block shots and passing lanes. 1.5 mil tops. Maybe Andy Sutton. We got more than a couple of guys slated for the A, who will be ready to step right before the year is out. Maybe by the end of training camp. We are deep deep deep in D prospects.

    Leave Bozak’s line the same as last year, slide Ryan in with Kadri and Versteeg, I’ll go to war with that top 6.

  • http://Website Bower_Power

    Jeffler, c’mon. You’ve run over some big points here.

    Dallas is working on an internal salary cap that’s quite low, since they’re trying to sell the team. The guys at defending big D pinned Neal’s price at 4 mil per year minimum. There’s (reportedly) a serious disagreement over term. Dallas has a glut of LW, especially if moving Benn to center doesn’t work out (Burnnstrom also plays LW). They lack the offensive defenseman that they’ve done so well with on their team before. We lack a high scoring LW that’s in the same age range as the rest of our core players. And we have arguably one of the best active puck moving defensemen.

    It’s a trade partnership made in heaven, and I’d be happy to throw more than Kaberle at them to get Neal, especially if we can lock him up for a long term.

    I would, however, agree that Simmonds is not likely. LA is looking for guys up front. They’ve got Doughty and Johnson – Kabby doesn’t make much sense.

  • http://Website mike the beeker

    I would be happy with the current team if the NHL were to start tonight. The current team lacks depth in the top six but I think it would be great to see some of our younger players fight for these spots. If Kabby were to stay and sign an extension I would not be upset at all. If Burkie were to trade him for someone that could immediately give us more scoring up front I would be fine with that too.

    I agree with your comments about nostalgia. I have been guilty of that in the past. For example, I wanted the Leafs to draft B.Schenn because when you watch videos it brings back memories of Wendel. Fight, hit and score. But the sad thing is there will never be another Wendel. There will never be another Roberts or Killer either. 15 years from now I hope I’m saying there will never be another Neon Dion or TyBoz or Kessel or Schenn. There will never be another Monster.

    Finally I agree with your thoughts of “hometown” players performing better on a team they grew up watching. That just seems like nonsense. However, there is something to be said about certain players that can only perform for certain teams. I like to think of it as the Oli Syndrome. I believe – to this very day – that if Oli were to go back to Florida he could get another 70+ points.

  • http://Website Justin

    Why don’t the Buds go after Clarke McCarthur now that the Thrashers walked aways from him after his hearing. He has a lot of potential and plays the left side. On a one year deal there would be not much to lose.

    Thoughts?

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